A Million Miles Away: Creativity Among the Stars
Join Kassi Kincaid for an inspiring conversation with Jose Hernandez, former NASA astronaut, engineer, speaker, and author. With a remarkable journey of perseverance, Jose shares his story of becoming an astronaut after 11 rejections. Tune in to explore the defining childhood moment watching Apollo 17 that ignited his dream, the pivotal influence of his teacher Ms. Young, and the grit that led him to achieve his lifelong goal.
Transcript:
Kassi Kincaid (00:00):
Welcome to The Edge of Creativity Podcast. I'm your host, Kassi Kincaid, and joined with me today is NASA astronaut, engineer, speaker and author, Jose Hernandez. Jose, thank you so much for being here today.
Jose Hernandez (00:17):
How you doing Kassi? Happy to be here and happy to be with your listeners and just happy to be here Kassi.
Kassi Kincaid (00:24):
This is such an honor. Jose, your story is one of the most inspirational stories that I have heard of. For those of you who don't know Jose's story, he was a farm worker, turned astronaut, has an incredible movie on Amazon Prime, focused on his life, A Million Miles Away. Jose, I'm just so excited to get to talk with you in person today about your whole journey. So let's dive right in, shall we?
Jose Hernandez (00:51):
Absolutely. Absolutely. Kassi. Like I said, very happy to talk about it and hopefully it inspires other people to reach for their own stars.
Kassi Kincaid (00:59):
Absolutely. So Jose, just from the very beginning, what was the moment that you knew that you wanted to be an astronaut? It's one of those careers that I feel like a lot of children, I want to be an astronaut or a doctor, a lawyer. Where was that defining moment for you?
Jose Hernandez (01:17):
Well, exactly. I mean, that defining moment was when I was a kid, I think in the era I grew up in during the Apollo era, I remember the very last Apollo mission. I think every kid dreamt of being an astronaut, I was no different. But I think what really sealed the deal was when I saw the very last Apollo mission, Apollo 17,
(01:44):
Astronaut Jean c Cerin. It was a cold December evening when I saw astronaut Gene Cernan walk on the moon. I mean, he's the very last man who's ever walked on the moon, if you think about it. And I was 10 years old, and there I was watching Apollo 17, Gene Cernan, hearing him talk to Mission Control Houston, still remember the reporter's name, Walter Cronkite narrating the moonwalk. And I would go outside and see the moon, almost full, come back inside, listen to the reporter and listening to Gene Cernan talk to mission. I mean, I was just hooked. I said, this is what I want to be. So ever since I was 10 years old, I want to be an astronaut. And I didn't change. I didn't say, oh, now I want to be this and now I want to be that. I said, no, I want to be an astronaut. So live your focus.
Kassi Kincaid (02:40):
And there's a teacher in the movie, what was her name?
Jose Hernandez (02:44):
Ms. Young.
Kassi Kincaid (02:45):
Ms. Young. And so is Ms. Young, a real teacher in your life. How impactful was Ms. Young in your life?
Jose Hernandez (02:54):
She was very impactful because she changed the trajectory of a whole family before she intervened or had the meeting with my parents. We used to travel three different places in California during the harvest, nine months, and then we would go back home to Mexico, central Mexico state of Michoacán. And we would repeat this every year. And it wasn't until Ms. Young finally, when I asked her for three months worth of homework because we were going to go to Mexico for three months. It wasn't until I asked her for that that she said she was going to come home and talk to my parents. She was frustrated because there's four of us in our family. I'm the youngest support, and this was the fourth time our family was asking for three months worth of homework. My other siblings had asked for that for her, so she said, I'm going to go talk to your parents. And she did. And she convinced my parents that we needed to stay in one place and that's when we made Stockton our home. So she changed the trajectory of a whole family by just paying a simple visit to a house and convincing the parents that we needed to change our nomadic lifestyle.
Kassi Kincaid (04:09):
And was she there? Did she get to witness you going into space?
Jose Hernandez (04:14):
Oh yeah. Yeah, she was there. All right. Yeah, we invited her. She had just retired from Stockton Unified School District. But yes, we invited her and her husband were sitting next to my parents when I blasted off into space.
Kassi Kincaid (04:31):
Wow. I mean, talk about if you as her student that would make your whole life seeing how education is that impactful. My grandparents were actually a migrant farm worker, would teach migrant children. So I have, it is a really cool connection and really advocated education as well. So just kind of going on your journey, one of the things I absolutely love about your story, Jose, is that you were rejected 11 times to NASA and got accepted on the 12th time. What kept you going, the determination, like you said, it was all you wanted to be. What kept you going after every single rejection?
Jose Hernandez (05:17):
Well, first of all, let me just point out that no one likes rejection, right? No one likes rejection. So a lot of people say, why did you keep going? First of all, I'm stubborn. I am very stubborn, so I know what I want, and I wanted to be an astronaut. But let's look at the fact that I wanted to be an astronaut Kassi motivated me to go and get my engineering degree. It motivated me to get my graduate degree. It motivated me to become a pilot, a scuba diver, learn a third language Russian, and then work in a world premier research facility, Lawrence Livermore National Lab. So I would always give my time. I would give myself one day to mourn the fact that I got rejected, feel sorry for myself or me. But then the second day, I would pick myself up because I would say, look, what's the worst that can happen if NASA never selects me? The worst that can happen? I used to work picking cucumbers for 50 cents a bucket. Look at me now. I got a master's. I got working in world premier research facility. I have a great job. So this is not a bad consolation price.
Kassi Kincaid (06:40):
True.
Jose Hernandez (06:43):
And I was enjoying what I was doing. And this is what I always tell people that as you embark upon your destination of where you're going, you got to make sure you're enjoying the journey because that's 70 to 80% of your time, 70, 80% of your effort. And if you're not enjoying the journey, chances are you picked the wrong destination for yourself and maybe you ought to reevaluate your destination.
Kassi Kincaid (07:09):
Wow, that is so profound.
Jose Hernandez (07:12):
And I was enjoying my journey. So I said, Hey, as long as NASA says don't apply again anymore, I'm just going to keep applying. And eventually 12th time was the charm.
Kassi Kincaid (07:23):
And I love how your creativity of like, okay, well what do I need? I need these degrees. I need to learn
Jose Hernandez (07:31):
Pilot.
Kassi Kincaid (07:32):
Yeah, a pilot,
Jose Hernandez (07:33):
Scuba diver, all that stuff.
Kassi Kincaid (07:35):
Yeah. Yes, yes. And I love how your grit, because creativity, it takes grit to get from point A to point B. So from your perspective, once you got to NASA, Jose, how did your perspective in the use of creativity change from application to your hands-on experiences?
Jose Hernandez (07:55):
Well, it is always be careful what you ask for, because when I got selected, finally I thought I made it. I thought the hard work was over and it wasn't. The hard work was barely going to begin. It turns out you're not an astronaut when you get selected. You're an astronaut candidate. And so what does that mean? It means for the next two years,
(08:18):
You're going to be studying 18 manuals this thick. You're going to be learning how to fly a jet. You're going to be learning how to fly the space shuttle. You're going to be learning how to operate the International Space Station. And every Friday for those next two years, you have a written test, you have an oral test, you have a simulator test. It's like being in college finals week, two years in a row. I mean, highly draining for physically and mentally for you, your family, very stressful. But you get through it and you are determined to get through it. You've got this far, I didn't expect it to that we were going to work so hard for the next stage. But then you get your wings, and now after two years, you're eligible to be assigned for a mission. And when you do, you train for another 18 months mission specific training. So yeah, it wasn't an easy road even once you got selected. And one of the things that I struggled with is that being an astronaut is more operations oriented. And I come from the engineering research world, so I kind of want to trace switches and make sure how things work. And people like from the military, they're more operations. They just memorized switch throws and all that they do.
(09:50):
So I had a tough time picking up learning things quickly because my brain wasn't wired that. But after a while, you learn it. You learn it, and now you become more operations oriented.
Kassi Kincaid (10:03):
Jose, what was that moment like when you finally got in? The jets are on, you're blasting into space. What was that moment like for you?
Jose Hernandez (10:14):
It was a surreal moment because it was a culmination of a 37-year-old dream. I was 47 when I went up into space, and it was the culmination of a 37-year-old dream. And absolutely, I was a giddy and very happy, and that I was finally going to realize my dream.
Kassi Kincaid (10:33):
How many days were you in space?
Jose Hernandez (10:35):
14 days to the International Space Station. It only takes eight and a half minutes to get up into space. You go from zero to 17,500 miles an hour and eight and a half minutes. Once you're up there, you going around the world once every 90 minutes. So during those 14 days, you do the math. It's about 217 revolutions. Wow. 5.3 million miles. I wish we had a frequent flyer program, but we don't.
Kassi Kincaid (11:00):
Right. You deserve it. You're one of the people that deserves it the most. Right. Jose, you've accomplished so much like engineer astronaut. Now you have your own consulting firm, is that right?
Jose Hernandez (11:15):
Yeah, Terra Luna Engineering. And I also come full circle, Kassi. I still drive a tractor and I still pick grapes, but they're my grapes. So I have a vineyard. And then I also make my own line of wines under the Tierra Luna Cellars label. So people watching, they want to taste wine that tastes out of this world made by an astronaut. They can go to Tierra, that's T-I-E-R-R-A, luna cellers.com, and they can order their own wine. And also, I'm also an author. I have the three books out. That's how we made the movie A million miles Away and based on one of the books. So that was pretty neat.
Kassi Kincaid (12:01):
Can you just share a few highlights of the impact of all of your work? I mean, it's just so evident, but what are some of your favorite highlights?
Jose Hernandez (12:09):
Well, I think one of my favorite ones is the one that is not even related to being a space. It was my early career at Lawrence Livermore Lab. I was one of two designers of the fulfilled digital mammography system for earlier detection of breast cancer. I'm so proud of it that I even hold it. You see that poster there? Oh, wow.
Kassi Kincaid (12:35):
Yeah.
Jose Hernandez (12:36):
Yeah. I was one of two inventors of the first full field digital mammography system where we basically ushered in the era of large area digital medical imaging applications. And we proved that our digital images were a lot clear more information than film screen systems that we use in the day. More information means earlier detection. Earlier detection means you save lives. And so this device has been credited with saving hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives by now. And so when people will tell me, what's my proudest professional moment? It's not wearing that blue suit back there, or it's not going up into space with my friends up there. It's actually building that digital mammography system. I know I've made a difference in mankind and humankind,
Kassi Kincaid (13:34):
And that's so cool that it was separate from your astronaut career, right? It was before that. So maybe even if you had never gotten into space, then you would have something that a legacy.
Jose Hernandez (13:45):
Already had left a legacy. Yeah.
Kassi Kincaid (13:47):
Yeah. I love that. So Jose, real quick, just for our listeners, what are just a few fun facts from space or being an astronaut?
Jose Hernandez (13:56):
Few fun facts is you always float. You're always floating. You never get tired of floating. You feel like a superhero. That is fun. We don't eat little pills for food. We eat normal food, albeit it is dehydrated. So if you ever look at, for example, cup of noodles, you, that's the kind of food we eat. We also eat military meal rations where the meat comes in. These basically containers that you put in the convection oven, you warm up and then you eat your hamburger patty or your chicken or whatever it is that you have. We take cookies, we take candy up there. So you pretty much eat and live a normal life except that you're floating all the time. Never get tired of zero G.
Kassi Kincaid (14:49):
No, you didn't the whole time you're in space.
Jose Hernandez (14:52):
That's cool. This is great. Yeah, exactly.
Kassi Kincaid (14:56):
How was it coming back from zero to gravity? Did you feel like, oh man, burdensome?
Jose Hernandez (15:02):
I think one of my crew mates put it best when we got back and we stood up for the first time. I think he said gravity sucks because we were so used to zero G, and now we had to learn how to walk and our balance system and everything. So it takes about a day to get used to it again.
Kassi Kincaid (15:23):
Wow. So Jose, just wrapping up today, this has been incredible. What is one final thought or piece of advice for our listeners today about creativity impact or just something related from your journey?
Jose Hernandez (15:42):
Well, I think what's the big takeaway is Kassi, is that you shouldn't be afraid to dream big. You shouldn't be afraid to dream big, so long as you're willing to work hard to convert that dream into reality. I mean, there are dreamers and there are dreamers and doers, and I tell people, please fall under that second category. Dream big,
(16:11):
But do it. Put into work. Nothing's for free in this life. Nothing's going to fall from the sky for you. You got to earn every step of the way. And I'm here to tell you i'ts a lot of hard work. It's not easy, but man, when you get there, you so much enjoy it because you put that work in yourself. It wasn't given to you, you earned it, and you so much more savor it and enjoy it as a result.
Kassi Kincaid (16:38):
And your dad had a recipe for that, is that right?
Jose Hernandez (16:42):
Yeah. He had a five ingredient recipe. He said, define your purpose in life. Recognize how far you are from it. Draw yourself a roadmap so you know how to get there. Prepare yourself according to the challenge, and develop a work ethic second to none. And then the final thing is never, ever, ever give up on yourself. That's the sixth ingredient that I had. Perseverance. That's part of the stubbornness of me. Never give up on yourself.
Kassi Kincaid (17:13):
Jose, thank you so much for your time here today. This has been such an honor to talk with you about your whole journey of being an astronaut engineer and so much more. Thank you for being here today.
Jose Hernandez (17:26):
Thank you, Kassi. Appreciate it. And again, a big hello to all your listeners, viewers. All right. Take care.
Kassi Kincaid (17:33):
Thanks so much for joining us for today's episode on The Edge of Creativity Podcast. And be sure to follow so you don't miss any of our upcoming conversations. We'll see you soon.
